Source: www.schneier.com – Author: Bruce Schneier
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Clive Robinson •
@ ALL,
Like the slow drip drip of the Chinese water tourture robs you of your sanity.
The slow dip dip of the unlawful privacy intrusion by guard labour robs US citizens of their society.
As an external observer I can not fail to observe that the politicians who favour these intrusions tend not to be either the brightest or best, and tend to have associations that are at best against the progress of society. They appear to actually drag the US back to the times of the various “Red Scares” and older Bible Thumping times.
Which gives rise to a couple of questions,
1, Do US citizens real want to be represented by such crooks and shysters?
2, As they are provably harmfull to all US citizens why?
JonKnowsNothing •
@wasianpower, All
re: Aren’t patient records protected by law? .
Yes and No
In USA we have HIPAA that determines some privacy but there’s always a catch to it.
- Being forced to divulge information requires a warrant.
- Volunteering information does not require a warrant but may affect patient privacy
- Third Party Records are not subject to privacy rules
So, the pharmacies are able provide their data and data logs and history files.
The prescribing MD may chose to require a warrant before saying anything about a patient’s condition. This really means they point the LEAs to the Hospital or Group Legal Administration teams for what they want to know. (1)
Once you have passed on your information, your records are no longer private and may fall under the Third Party Records rules. (2)
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1) For many required interactions about health benefits with Government Agencies, Local, State or Federal or with multiple insurance companies, a person may have to get a MD to fill out various legal documents about their illness and status.
These documents are now handled by special legal medical teams in the health care organization and not directly by the MD.
ex: You fall ill and need 3 months for recovery. Your illness falls into the qualifying period were you can claim a disability stipend (Local, State, Private) (2). You must request the information be provided on the correct legal information document and sent to the government or organization that requires it.
2)
In California if you are sick for more than 7 days and you have paid into the California State Disability Insurance program you can file for short term stipend (max 1 year).
ht tps://en. wiki pedia.org/wiki/California_State_Disability_Insurance
- California State Disability Insurance (SDI or CASDI) is a statutory (state-regulated and state-audited) state disability program of the State of California for short-term disability income replacement. The program has been in effect since 1946
ht tps:/ /edd.ca.gov/en/disability/About_DI/
Some requirements:
- Complete a seven-day, unpaid waiting period.
- Have earned at least $300 in wages that are subject to SDI deductions (“CASDI” on your paystubs) during the 12-month base period of your claim.
- Have your physician/practitioner certify to your disability by completing the Physician/Practitioner Certification.
Pfizbook •
In Norway, online pharmacies were sending data to Facebook about what medicines people were browsing for, including prescriptions, until journalist researchers at national public broadcaster NRK discovered it. Some mental health clinic was doing the same. Both cases were most likely just ignorance/incompetence – they had a Facebook connector, as is common, and they may not have even considered the privacy problem. They removed the facebook connections entirely after it was discovered, as I recall. A good reason to use spy blocking browsers/extensions.
When contacted, Facebook just responded with “don’t send us sensitive data”, and it’s unclear if they have deleted the data in question (likely not) or if the operators are even able to.
Winter •
@JonKnowsNothing
Third Party Records are not subject to privacy rules
There is a divide in “Privacy” concepts.
On the one hand, there is the idea that private data are goods like copyrights and all data are the property of those who are in the legal possession of the data. So, a copy of your private data are legally owned by anyone who gets their hands on them. As these are their property, there is no legal protection of your privacy.
at the other hand is the principle that private data are an inalienable possession of the person they describe, eg, in the European GDPR. The PII may be stored or processed only with the explicit consent of the original owner. In this view, all third party data is still owned by the persons that are described.
In the EU, there are regulations about clinical data that are even stricter. All clinical and medical data are protected under these regulations and these may not be shared, copied etc, without a legally valid reason. All data a pharmacy has are off-limits for everyone but the patient without a warrant.
I had to sign for my pharmacy to allow them to share my data with the hospital or other pharmacies.
Clive Robinson •
@ Winter, ALL,
“[On] the other hand is the principle that private data are an inalienable possession of the person they describe, eg, in the European GDPR. The PII may be stored or processed only with the explicit consent of the original owner.”
Which is why UK politicians got the full scale schmoozing from Googles Lobyists even befor BREXIT started.
Now of course not just Google but the private “spooks R Us” Palantir have the records of every UK and other nations citizens who have ever used the UK NHS.
We are asured by the hand fed idiots of those lobbyists that “the data is anonymized” and “only for medical research”. As has been proved a number of times neither is true in the slightest.
Worse we know that the data has been seen in “non safe-harbour” nations where it has absolutly no legal protections for the person who the data is about. In fact the exact opposite there are legal protections for those who have misappropriated the data, and others to prevent the person who the data is about having any recompense etc.
Which kind of tells you just how valuable some think that data is…
At the risk of sounding like a detective/spy story, knowing what medications people are on, alows you to find out what substances are going to cause significantly adverse, potentially fatal, if not fatal side effects.
Certain fairl common medications you are told to not consume the products of fermentation (alcohol, vinegar, etc). Which like penuts and their byproducts are easily and freely available as ordinary food stuffs…
As Senator R. Wyden has pointed out there is a “war on womens rights” starting up by certain other Senators and Politicians who are a “My God first always” persuasion, or for their own personal gain claim so. That actually lie about what is in the bible, making up fake scripture to justify their very out of date and dangerous ideas that are often worse than White Nationalists and other loony-two-tunes types that just love a nut-bar strong-man standing there spouting rhetoric that should be illegal (and would be if they were wearing a white mask).
Bob •
@Clive
A sizeable minority wants it. Unfortunately, the way our political systems are set up gives them outsized influence. If you ask them, it’s a safeguard against the tyranny of the majority. I’ve yet to have any of them tell me what’s to safeguard the rest of us against the tyranny of the minority.
Bob •
If the police want my personal information, they should buy it off the dark web for a tenth of a penny like everyone else has to.
Wannabe techguy •
@ wasianpower
“Aren’t patient records protected by law?”
Yes,but not from law enforcement agencies. I’m not talking legally,I’m talking in practice.
Winter •
@Bob
If you ask them, it’s a safeguard against the tyranny of the majority.
It is white men safeguarding against the tyranny of the majority of women and non-whites in general.
The same answer as who white people want to protect themselves from with all the guns they buy.
Racism is still at the core of all old slave holder societies.
Bob •
@Wannabe
In practice, the only things protected from law enforcement agencies are politicians and rich people.
Bob •
@Winter
Queers, women, and black folks have actually seen the highest rise in gun ownership as of late. I’m guessing a few years at most before the GOP starts making moves to disarm queers due to our “abnormal lifestyle choice.” I can’t help but wonder whether the liberals will go along with it just to get some guns off the street.
AL •
Do US citizens real want to be represented by such crooks and shysters?
Shoot, we have a two choice “democracy”, either neocons, or neocons with a white supremacist veneer, accompanied by a corporate media that pits the rabble against the other rabble. We’re all supposed to subscribe to one of two camps of group think. They have us where they want us, because with no runoff elections, and someone can win with a plurality, our choices is voting for the lesser of two evils.
The US is sorely in need of modernization, like runoffs and ranked voting.
JonKnowsNothing •
@Clive, @Winter, All
re: Privacy vs Consent
@Winter’s pharmacy info was private until they granted consent for others to have it. Now it is not private, it maybe restricted but not private.
Using the NSA argument:
Once another person “sees” the data, it is not private. This is their “thrown over the transom” definition that the billions of data points they gather remain private because only the computer “looks” at it. The computer selects items and “throws it over the transom” for human viewing. Once a LEA authorized human views it they can decide to throw it back in the pool or not, but it is not longer private.
Consent is another thorny issue because as @Winter pointed out, they had to consent to allow others to view or know about it. The presumption is that those “others” are Need To Know persons and Medically Relevant exchanges. Except they are likely not. They are clerks of all levels who may view the data, they are not likely MDs because their jobs are to verify that all the [Fill In The Blank] lines are correctly filled in. Then the data is passed to other members with knowledge of billing, reorder points, government reporting requirements.
The concept of automagic consent is in Opt-Out systems. The California Department of Motor Vehicles (CA DMV) and State of California have enacted laws that automatically include you in Organ Harvesting Operations. They put a marker on your drivers license which may alert emergency personnel that you are a Donor in Waiting, which you can get removed for a fee; except it does not remove you from the Organ Harvesting Organization shared databases that span the USA. If the dot is not on your CDL, the ER folks will still see Donor in Waiting on your medical insurance and hospital acquired data, although you may not see it on the reports sent to you. It’s not on your own reports because it is “Universally known you are a Donor in Waiting” and any of the many groups that engage in Organ Harvesting (profit and non-profit) get your medical records once you are a “Confirmed Candidate for Harvest”.
A number of MSM reports about US Prisoners who die in custody and who’s families claim the body have found body parts missing, lost, stolen, strayed, taken, dispatched without their consent. (1) The same thing is true for people in hospital. You are not dead-dead, until they take the body parts they want. If it’s your heart and brain, you die a few minutes sooner than if it’s kidneys and liver.
Consent is implicit, Privacy ends when you share information with anyone.
EU may think the GDPR will protect them but do not die in California.
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HAIL Warning
1)
ht tps://www.theguardia n.c om/us-news/2024/jan/11/alabama-prison-missing-organs
- Man who died in Alabama prison was reportedly returned to family without organs
PaulBart •
@Winter
Why can’t those white nations be more like the Saudis or the Indians or the Chinese or South Africans or Turks or Syrians, or… Those countries are a paradise for women and minorities and their peoples in general. Da Marxist comrades. Ya’ll need to breath cause ya lookin’ a little green. Envy does that don’t ya know.
Winter •
@PaulBart
…Marxist….
When an American uses the word Marxist [1], you know he ran out of facts and real arguments and retreats into an alternative reality with alternate facts. It is a setup for fraud and deception.
[1] There are real Marxists in the world. But Americans use it in the same manner as earlier generations used “satanist”, “witch”, and “sorcerer”.
Clive Robinson •
@ Bob, Winter, ALL,
Re : Smell the wind.
“Queers, women, and black folks have actually seen the highest rise in gun ownership as of late.”
We know from nature that it’s possible to sense the weather three to six months in advance look up ladybugs and spiders about how they shelter up. When I was young I was told they could smell bad weather comming on the wind.
I’m guessing some people are “smelling the social wind” blowing their way…
Let’s be honest about what’s going to happen if the DoughGnarled ever gets another 4years. He wants to make a mark of justification as he sees it to repute what has been claimed. So he is,
“Going to go bold or go down fighting.”
At the very least… If he can find a legal excuse to stay for more than his second term then he will. Past observers have noted that being at war would be one way, howrver I don’t think he would pick such a fight wirh another soverign nation. I’m thinking his proven track record on creating civil unrest would be his most likely action.
For those in the “Civil Guard” now would be a good time to not just get out but get away…
The statistics on civil unrest that leads to open militia style conflict and insurection in the past half century to a century are not good with something like 1/5-1/3 of the civilian population becoming actual casualties and upwards of 1/2 of their property getting damaged or destroyed.
Such statistics are not exactly hidden away or difficult to peace together.
But add in that others believe the US has “hollowed it’s self out” both economically and with not keeping the population in general skilled. Further that it’s been running at too higher living standard that consumes global resources and it can nolonger do so…
Yup they are predicting it’s economy will collapse inwards rapidly and probably violantly after the first few other nations say “No more Dollars”.
How it will actually play out is anybodies guess, but history shows two things,
1, Empires collapse and die.
2, The collapse and decay are rarely non violent.
People are still trying to work out why the old Soviet system went so quietly with nearly all the violence there was being due to issues that were pre-soviet. The fact that some are trying to bring it back using violence oppression and significant corruption tells people what will happen to them if such people succeed. Which is why they fight back against what others thought were impossible odds.
The War Hawks in the US have repeatedly threatened to,
“Bomb them back to the stone ages”
With numerous small nations, such threats build up not just resentment but planning to defend by creating alliances etc. The leader of the Communist Chinese once pointed out that on the ground the US would loose because their population was too small to sustain extended conflict. In part it’s why the US has more nukes than all the other super powers combined and is desperate to stop any other nation developing nukes and delivery systems.
Nothing says “Keep of the Grass” like a nation having even just a couple of dozen nukes as long as they have delivery systems that can reach any US city with half a million or more residents and all the comms and power infrastructure they desperately need to last even 72hours above ground where it is highly highly vulnerable.
A hint to anyone building a new town ciry or nation, put at the very minimum your power, comms and water infrastructure at least “6ft under” it won’t be invulnerable to a direct strike, but with a little thought it will “work around” direct strike damage sufficiently for people to be able to organise and survive, especially if you have deep sub surface metro railway systems. If you give them long wide platforms with widely spaced entrance and egress to either end of the platforms you have all sorts of options (see Stockholm metro for just one of many examples).
JonKnowsNothing •
@Clive, @ Bob, Winter, ALL
re: Wind Directions
A SciFi book by Liu Cixin, The Three-Body Problem (novel), is an interesting view of what might happen when the “Keep of the Grass” signs stop working. Even if you have 400 years to wait before the first mark on the lawn shows up.
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ht tps: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liu_Cixin
ht tp s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three-Body_Problem_(novel)
ht tps://en .wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Forest
h ttps: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death%27s_End
Clive Robinson •
@ AL, ALL,
Re : Purple politics.
“They have us where they want us…”
As an external observer, that I can agree with. I’m still amazed by what certain MSM News Channels have got away with in the recent past.
Though one getting hit with an eye wateringly large settlement for slandering a voting machine company is a very rare exception to what should be happening (as it’s orchistrated, maliciously done attacks not free speach).
I guess the question is how to stop it… As long as the MSM get away with such nonsense, I see no hope and something tells me that the current SCOTUS will not help, only make it worse, likewise the superior courts of many states.
Blaziken •
@AL
“They have us where they want us,…”
This is because 30 or so years ago they discovered that there is vastly more money to be made in campaigning than being elected (although the latter comes with benefits and opportunities for corruption).
The result is a system which is more aligned with professional wrestling than democracy. Win or lose, all wrestlers get paid.
Occasionally there is a well intentioned contender, but what chance do they have against an outrageous professional wrestler.
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Sidebar photo of Bruce Schneier by Joe MacInnis.
Original Post URL: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2024/01/pharmacies-giving-patient-records-to-police-without-warrants.html
Category & Tags: Uncategorized,data privacy,healthcare,law enforcement,medicine,police,privacy – Uncategorized,data privacy,healthcare,law enforcement,medicine,police,privacy
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